Literature’s revolters rebel against the revolution OR “The King Stands Alone”
Tuesday, March 18th, 2008
King Wenclas doesn’t have a cadre anymore and the writers he organized are piddling in their fiefdoms. The Underground Literary Alliance shoved him out. First, though, it shoved other people out. It drove members away or they splintered off or they tried to sell out (never successfully).
Wenclas doesn’t seem to have let it get him down. He’s gone back to Detroit and he’s still running the most controversial blog in lit. In which he says things like this:
That the conglomerates are able to squeeze meager profits from the art means nothing, because it’s accomplished through demeaning the art by ever more standardized examples of “popular” novels, genre fiction (interchangeable commodities like romance novels); and degrading trends like the execrable snob-based “gossip girl” books. Actual literature meanwhile is reserved for a coterie of fossilized authors young and old, from John Updike and Philip Roth to Marisha Pessl and Jonathan Safran Foer.
The “literary revolution” he started seems pretty moribund since it got its visibility pumping with a mention in the New York Times back in 2004. Meanwhile, other groups have sprung up. The Guild of Outside Writers formed as a splinter group of the ULA. I just learned yesterday of the Blacksmiths of Literary Progress, led by Tim Hall, another former ULA member.
Folks, we have to try to get along?
Did you ever wonder why bands can’t seem to stay together anymore? Aerosmith is nothing but a bunch of frat boys with long hair, but they’ve been together for 30 years. Yet the ever-so enlightened Rage Against the Machine couldn’t swing more than three studio records and a raft of covers before they started raging against each other.
I have no doubt that King Wenclas’s ego caused some of the tensions that led to these separate splinter groups. I also have no doubt that there are other so-called literary revolutionaries out there trying to organize writers that will never join any of the three because each of them have a leader who wants his own party. Look, folks, the revolution won’t be compartmentalized, and if you all insist on having your own party it’s going to be a very little party.
If outside writers ever have a chance of beating back the tide of rich boy writing and hieroglyphical prose that has become the staple of contemporary literary fiction, we have to back each other up.
First, we have to read each other’s books. Or listen to them. And review them and support them on our own websites.
Second, we have to share our base. That means we need to team up when we do shows and zines and try to cross-promote each other’s fan bases in order to build support for this idea that the mainstream is awry.
Third, we have to figure out who complements each of us. I realized pretty on in my involvement with the ULA that I didn’t add much to one of their shows and, if I held one, they wouldn’t add a lot to mine. We appeal to different people, and I think it’s important for artistic groups to collaborate with people with whom they share an aesthetic or appeal.
That said…
Fourth, we can’t snipe. Just because I don’t do public actions with the ULA or Outside Writers or the Blacksmiths or whomever does not mean I would snipe against them or turn my back on them. I support them all. I just wish they would quit hating on each other. In fact…
Fifth, outside writers need to find a leader. We need to find away to sustain a leader ourselves and rally around him or her in the mere hope that his or her rise will lift some of us up, too.
Revolutions are predicated on faith that, by force, the system can be made to work better. Revolutionaries have faith that strong leadership can bring us through patches of controversy, internal dissent and outside strife. In revolutions it is the collective trust in the leaders that gives us the unified strength shoulder our way through adversity and win this thing. We can bring books back!
King Wenclas is not the leader. He’s more the visionary who foretold how all of us who care about bluecollar, straightforward, character driven lit by people with guts can work together behind someone and get writing out of the McSweeney’s Morass it has gotten into. That said, it’s not a very good sign when all the potential disciples turn their backs on the guy who described the way.
If someone does come that can provide the leadership the literary underground needs, though, I’m just not really sure we can all get over ourselves and follow along the way.
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I dig your blog. I like the pragmatic solutions. I like the assessment of what’s going on. I’d like to point out a related reason for Wenclas’ demise…
I understand that it’s just a new thread of ego and sniping, but I think it’s important to point out how unbelievably self-righteous Wenclas is. The dude doesn’t just think a lot of himself. He separates the world into those keeping it real and those not. And no one is safe from the finger pointing. I mean, he calls himself King. Wenclas.
I’m not sure he’s all that different from other leaders who issue blanket criticisms of their followers for not being black/gay/working class/jewish/detroit/east coast/west coast/real enough. It’s obnoxious.
Self-righteous leaders simply beg people to turn on them. I think his is a revolution too drenched in blame and petty judgments to move the important judgments forward.
Jen, thanks for weighing in. I completely hear you. It seems to me that Wenclas is permanently playing the role of, what Alinsky would call, “polarizing.” Us vs. Them, over and over. And we have to do that so that people even realize that there is an enemy and what they are doing to us… this stuff is so subjective, though. It’s easy to fall into the trap of “everyone sucks but us” and sometimes I do have a hard time figuring out what the hell Wenclas likes and doesn’t like. I mean, one of the big ULA members is this poet that Wenclas thinks is the greatest. Well, he never makes any sense to me. Lots of charisma, but I never have a clue what he’s talking about and I’m not sure he does, either.
So if Blue Collar writing is supposed to be down to Earth, where does he fit in? I guarantee that the common man would not get into his work. No way.
Also, self-righteousness is not a good place for a leader to start from. I think Wenclas did blaze a trail, though, and he did have a strong vision. I mean, the vision I’ve spelled out here is a lot like Wenclas’s vision. I think the only difference is my suggestion that writers need to organize themselves by complementarity. Wenclas just sort of wanted everyone from the Underground in… not so sure that works in the Arts. Imagine Michael Bolton sharing a stage with Marilyn Manson, you know?
So, now, I’m waiting for a leader that the underground can organize around and trying to get to know the underground better. When someone pops up and says, “Let’s all do a reading” and people do or “Let’s all write about this” and people do or “Let’s all make a movie about how crazy we are” and people show up, that’s the guy I want to follow. He (or she) has not shown yet, as far as I know.
Wenclas, for his part, would join in with that guy, too. At least, I think so.
Brady check your facts man! King Wenclas was not “shoved out” by the ULA, he left voluntarily and to the disappointment of many of us. The ULA has never forced any one out.
Secondly, “Blacksmiths of Literary Progress” is not at this time a legitimate lit group like the ULA or Outsider Writers. It seems to be a lark set up to mock the ULA and your beloved King Wenclas….which is much of what Tim Hall and friends have been doing lately. Here is a quote by “blacksmith” Ken Wohlrob on bookslut, March 10, 2008….
Q: Who are the Blacksmiths For Literary Progress? What do they do, and how are you involved?
“The Blacksmiths For Literary Progress is a literary insurgency group of dedicated practitioners who believe in two things: good literature and a well-shod horse. We have hammers, we have anvils, and we are coming to your home. Like all literary insurgency groups we focus our energies where it counts: on not actually writing anything. But we have plenty of meetings. We don’t have any secret signs or anything weird like that, but if you spot us together you will notice a slight collective facial tick.”
Thirdly, you state above that you only made it to one ULA show, despite living in Philadelphia alongside King Wenclas. Hmmm quite a dedicated member you are! The show you made it to was our Medusa show, and your read off with Frank Walsh (the unnamed poet you bash in the comment above) was a high point of the night, yet you say you didn’t add anything to the reading!?? A lot of people enjoyed that show, and you should be proud of your participation. Your first reading in Philly, right?
Anyway i know you’re a good guy doing a lot of positive things. But if you post something like this, maybe you should check your facts just a little bit better. Hmmm well ok, take care of yourself.
I am sorry if you feel like your organizations are attacked here, but I just think that the literary resistance has been behaving counter-productively, pretty much since I first semi got involved with it. I know I’ve never been a great participant.
I’ve said these things privately before but it seemed time to say them publicly. The organized resistance seems to have lost its way for a long time, so I thought I’d put out a call for a new leader to start showing leadership. Maybe not through the ULA… maybe not even with an organization… but somehow.
I think the main problem with the “revolution” is that literature is so subjective, and above all, personal. What I like and what you like might be totally different. Just as people come from different backgrounds, we all have different tastes too. And who’s to say who’s tastes are better?
So literature by rich kids is just as valuable as writing by blue collar workers. If you want literature to reflect truth, you can’t deny a group of people. You can’t deny a person’s story.
I think the problem with literature right now is too many people are concerned with what someone else tells them literature should be, or that there is a certain way to go about doing it.
But there is no authority telling me or you what to write. I can write what I want and you can write what you want. No one can tell any of us what we can and can’t write. The “establishment” really is the system that is set up, the process of submitting work to the big publishers and the kind of work these companies like to publish.
Publishing houses are a business. They publish what they think they can sell. So if a writer is rejected, it may not be because the story is no good; it may jut be that the publisher doesn’t think it can make a profit on it. Unfair maybe, but that’s just the way it is, and if you believe in the value of free markets, then you can’t really blame the publishers for only going with what they think they can profit from.
So many writers and many stories are left out. The beauty of it is there are alternatives. Self-publishing and independent publishers.
I think the big challenge right now is not to “overthrow” anyone but how to make the alternative means of publishing more effective. How to get better distribution, how to get better layout and typesetting and cover design for less money. How to use the internet more effectively and how to get more people aware of your work.
it’s going to require people working together towards a common goal, but the goal is not to overthrow the establishment. It’s next to impossible to topple Random House, but more importantly, it’s not necessary and it’s not even beneficial. Big publishers fill a role, and if you take them out someone else will have to fill that role. A lot of underground writing does not appeal to a mass audience, and that’s okay. But it would be much better to find a way to co-exist with all the publishing companies and help each other out then to fight against a giant that isn’t even aware there is a battle.
One of the biggest challenges, probably, is that self-published books are not respected. The Library of Congress won’t touch them, and they are not eligible for most awards. Raising the respectability and the acceptance of self-published books is perhaps the most important thing right now, because once self-published books can hang with the books from Random House, for example, things will go a lot smoother. How to go about doing all this remains to be seen.
But the common goal we should be working toward is building up the “underground” writers and the independent publishers and the self-publishers.
Not tearing down anything. Because writing is personal, it will mean different things to different people. If you go around saying “this kind of literature is bad or phony, and this kind is no good, and only this kind of literature should be praised”, then you will just continue to get what the ULA has gotten over the last 7 years: not a whole lot of anything. A few mentions in a few newspapers, a few interviews, a few protests. I’m sure they were fun, but has anything in the world of publishing changed for the better? Has hounding on Rick Moody made it any easier for underground writers?
Literature is personal, and therefore our own perceptions about writing is what is most valid. Writing for the reasons you want to write for, because if literature is truly free then there can be no one demanding you do this or that. If the underground started doing that then they would be no better than the gatekeepers they have been fighting against.
If you want to write about rich people, go ahead. If you want to get published in Knopf, go ahead. If you want to start your own press and print your own works, go ahead. If you want to write just to make money or just to get laid, go ahead. In art there is no one who can tell you what is right and what is wrong. Because writing is such an internal thing, setting external rules will always end with bad results.
Therefore, the revolution, if you can really call it that; it’s more of a reformation, will be primarily one within your own self. Determining what you want with your writing and figuring out how to go about getting it, whatever that happens to be. If you want to tear the walls down, go ahead, but don’t complain if others aren’t interested in joining you.
The Revolution Will Not Be Externalized.
Hi Brady…
Leaders, readings… the ULA is bigger than all that. Leaders are so Che and Fidel. Everything you need is right there at LiteraryRevolution.com. If you want to amplify your voice, mention the ULA. Write a letter on your own to the editor about an literary topic…and get ignored. It’s not tricky.
(…And Pat has it right.)
Some timid types hesitate to use our name for the cause of indy access because they’re afraid of The Taint. ULAers have been known to be outrageous! But guess what, speaking up will get you banned and branded no matter what! So you might as well come out with it.
The ULA is for doers—like you, Brady, with your blog here.
Largely, the ULA is for FANS FANS FANS. The ideas and methods are set up so anyone can relate to them—who cares if particular examples are offputting. Use the ideas less outrageously, if you like.
Here’s an easy one: I just put up two petitions, one to give an easy way to stand up for indy writers; another that says we need an Independent category in book keyword/tag systems so that indy publishing can finally have its own name like it does in music and film. http://petitiononline.com/freelit and http://petitiononline.com/indyflag. –These are ideas anyone can relate to, can find a complement in.
Brady, if you don’t get Frank, find someone you DO relate to and use the ULA name to get attention for them. Because if you CAN relate to them the powers-that-be have SHUT THEM OUT. Wherever you are, the real artists need a rallying cry.
The ULA is set up to be a growth sport. We’re a big tent. It’s not only for urban gritty types, never was, never even hinted at it. Make your own complementarity! Sure, various “Special Units” teams or City Bureaus might have leaders or styles, or not, and you might like them, or not. But we’re bigger than one part. Our point has never been sameness, it’s about insisting that the System give access to the indy voice. Of course, if you stand up for indy you’ll be called gauche and outrageous no matter how you do it—don’t forget that! So why not just take the leap. Holding back will NOT get you anywhere.
Yeah, the ULA can be slow. Who can blame us: we have no money and no time. But this spring we’re finally launching a total of 8 ULA books on a national scale. See http://ulapress.com.
We don’t need a leader. We have a name and a cause…and blogs with feedback.
Why fuss over squabbles? Why try to strawman the movement into a style that we’ve never limited ourselves to?
Karl writes powerfully, has good ideas, and is nervy. Let him do his thing.
And by all means, keep doing yours. If you want to tie it into something bigger, you know what to do.
John, I suspect that you’re not very experienced in the lit scene or in the zeen scene or in successful sales or organizing. In short, you’re presenting a nifty little…NAIVE…view.
“I’m OK, you’re OK” isn’t going to cut it. Rich/insider writers are people, too—that’s funny—except for that 99% of the literary pie that they’ve been getting for decades. Believe me, we’re not preventing them from anything. The rich have painted their world in words quite well over the years—to no effect.
Speaking of effect, the ULA has had good impact. (The NEA won’t be giving a grant to a millionaire any time soon.)
And writing is NOT so internal—ask sensible, real-world questions of most any work out there and you’d be using a different approach to reviewing than the pandering, dead-end formula we’ve seen. Writing has to relate to the real world or it’s pointless…same with reviewing. Some people might like the unquestioning view of the world that the rich/insiders present them—but only 1% can really relate to it—the rest are merely entertained by the view into the special world that is otherwise closed off to them. More broadly relevant writing IS possible! …But only if the indy voice can break thru.
Jeff, the NEA and the Guggenheim grant their awards based on literary merit, not financial need. You could make the case that connections were the reason Moody and/or Franzen received their awards, though it would be hard to prove. But saying they don’t deserve the grants because they are wealthy is missing the point of what the grants are for in the first place. A person should not be rejected for an award simply because of his/her economic background. That is discrimination. Denying someone because he is rich is just as bad as denying someone because he is poor.
Still, the grant fiascoes has done exactly what to help underground writers? The NEA may still give grants to millionaires, since financial need is not a criteria for an award (says so on their website anyway). All the sound and fury the ULA has generated has signified nothing. Underground writers are no closer to getting a bigger piece of the “pie”. The ULA website isn’t even updated regularly anymore.
“I’m OK, you’re OK” is not going to get it for you because you don’t like the position you’re in. That’s fine. I’m not against that. I believe everyone should do what they want to do. I just expressed my belief that the only way anything will get accomplished is if you work to build up an alternative means of publication, rather than trying to tear down the powerhouses. Maybe my view is naive, but the ULA hasn’t really shown in its 7+ years of existence that its way is very effective. You may be too prideful to admit it, but the evidence is clear through lack of evidence; nothing has changed. The ULA has already lost its mouthpiece with the departure of King Wenclas. I don’t agree with King’s views or his way of arguing them, but he does command attention. The ULA has failed. I see no evidence to the contrary.
Ah…as to our ineffectiveness…
I just got an order for all 8 new upcoming ULA titles from a major metro indy bookstore—out of the blue—the buyer was talking with a customer about the grants debacle and wondered what we’ve been up to—so he googled us then saw our new book line coming out—emailed and asked for all titles asap—said he’ll put them up in a special display as a way to show there’s another voice out there in contrast to the MFA style.
Ahem.
I haven’t even started the campaign yet but here’s a case of our activism being in the mind of literary folk which then led to our complete presence in their store.
Nuff said.
I say the ULA has failed and the best defense you have is 8 titles in one store? In 7 years, that’s the pinnacle of your effectiveness? That’s your comeback? Is that example supposed to prove that the ULA has been effective?
It is great that you’re publishing new writers, but that one example hardly shows much progress. What kind of sales have those works generated? How many people know these titles exist?
Which bookstore is this, by the way?
I hope it is clear, Jeff, that I am not now, nor have I ever, denounced the ULA. I get frustrated by the behavior and the choices of its members at times, but I am not about to denounce it or anyone who’s tryng to do that sort of work.
I still consider myself a member and I have never tried to hide my affiliation and never will.
That said, the idea is important enough to me to criticize its choices.
John… I don’t have a lot to add to Jeff’s points for you. I perceive a fear of the ULA by the higher ups. I could be kidding myself on that point.
I also think you are singing kum by yah a little too loudly too. Look,it’s more than just everyone writes, the best will out, blah blah blah. Literature has powerful cultural arbiters who tell people what is important and interesting People by into this crap and read it. Or some people do… but more people,overtime get alienated by all the drivel.
And the subject matter is key, too. There needs to be a large class rebalance in lit to favore the working class. Look, I missed the action in this thread because I was taking the bus down to DC next to five rich kids from Penn. There stories are really, really over-told. I had already heard that story 1000 times before I heard it live and in person tonight.
Anyway, I should also mention that I am a professional Organizer. I create tension for a living. It never ceases to amaze me how many people think that resistance and protest doesn’t really matter. Yet, they benefit endlessly from things that we only have because of protest and resistance.
Protest matters. Lit needs resistance.
If you don’t think protest can move a form, I have one word for you: punk.
(Dismiss its aesthetic if you want, but punk changed music in a huge way, and definitely for the better)
Sorry, this should be more coherent, but it’s after one am and I have been helping a friend boil eggs for an easter party tomorrow.
test test test testing
touchy=feely
Jen the Poetaster, and the john and Lady Dale (as in The Curiosity Shop}
If I don’t make any sense then I guess you make perfect sense.
Otherwise there’s no argument there and the readers over on the side of the tracks should draw their own conclusions and make their own decisions thereby, now on the other hand (the left one in your case) any readers on the right side of the trash especially the readers who also happen to be writers ( since, as in Mozart’s time when pretty much the whole of kulchured society were competent musicians, so goes it with American society today but as regards writing) who happen to be suckered over here to your Blug should be forewarned and keep their wits about ‘em as this is evidentially not unlike an EPA super-fund site while you are so self impressed and indifferent to everything but your NGO albeit government subsidized pay check that you want US to believe that you just plumb forgot to put up the yellow caution tape and the skull and bones poison- warning placards and should get a heads up from the Resistance and hold their breath and take a judicious gander, then get the hell out of here before they are overcome with nausea.
I could answer your questions about the ego (but you wouldn’t understand ), or those about the reasons why the NEA gave millionaires money when it can be proved that the culture wars and the class war are the same thing (but then you already know that), or someone else from the ULA and just about anyone at the ULA could tell you that people like yourself only complain or harp on and on about respect and respecting each other and making a leap of faith and everybodyjust getting along like the Teletubbies only when there’s disrespect, because quite frankly I’m already bored with this Blip of yours.
Now as for the OW , I have it from an honest comrade who happens to be on the inside of the outside of the Guild that the thing is pretty much washed up and doesn’t deliver on the promises of it’s leaders ( assuming that Pat King and JDS are anywhere to be found but up their own arses), and so Johnny I think you got it backwards about the ULA on that account. Also the Blackguards Of Littoral Garbage– pretty much speaks form itself and to each other while engaged in a daisy chain, don’t you think. But then do you, Baby, I mean ,think, instead of following what you see in the mirror. Like yo man, “I’ve said these things in private” and well like “I’m coming out inpublic now, Mr. DeMille” . Whose privates were they, Inquiring minds want to know. Georgie B’s, Lil’ Miss Sunshine’s, Harry Potter’s? Maybe you can have it both ways, but the ego is the most convenient and mercurial vehicle human beings have. It may not even be real when it comes down to it, but the Superego you sound so fascinated with is not a leader but would seem like das Furher, I’m thinking and to hell with it.
Any way as the OW tried and tried to win over any number of ULAers including myself but not a single ULA member went over and Tim Hall is a pathetic backstabber and should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail (one of those sociopathic anarchists one runs into in Joseph Conrad’s works who tears wings off of flies).
Readers here and even your pimping disciples should instead check out the Idiom Poets/Walking English, for one, who have been inspired and provoked to near riot by contact with the ULA. Their posse is a hundred times more interesting and boisterous than the Unbearables say or even maybe the Merry Pranksters and write the best poetry of our Metrosexual seaboard. Then there is a huge underground jag mostly developed in the West and Southwest of Outlaw poets.
As for Wenclas he’s just getting started and is in a sea change coming to grips with the mortality of his soul in Detroit, in my opinion (relative-speaking not relativistic’ly speaking). I think he should be spending more time more time in the water away from the conquered and co-opted lands recharging in his own huge writing talents.
But when characters (sorry, personalities) like yourself are at large in Gotham what the hell can he do but deal.
He’s developing his way, the Alliance is developing its way, the ULAPress/LitVision is developing and rippling outthrough the East Coast, the Upper Midwest and into Pittsburgh, the Southeast, and California. In England and Ireland, in Paris, the Czech Republic….
(Bythe way Jeff I wouldn’t tell the John even what cupboard I kept my sugar in!) Wenclas as the leader who is now conveniently fallen from his high horse because you say so on a blog that will only get attention because the leaders of the rebellion are here stooping beneath ourselves to put you and your band of bureaucratic brats on notice? All I know. All I know is that King lead the forays into hostile territory, into adventures where each of us in the ULA gang confronted the power in its cave or monolithic tower whether of iron or ivory and the others before me. I see him maybe not so much as a leader but as an Indian guide, a pathfinder, but always I take him at his mettle as a hero. And one or all of Albert Camus’ absurd archetypes. No more nor less human than any of the rest of us. Pretty much us in the ULA. The rest of you can go cry to yo mama.
By the way do you know that the Surrealist poets, not known for being simplistic and easy listening like Eluard and Aragon read their work to packed factories of attentive union workers?
Do you know I refuse to use the word ART either privately or publicly instead opting to coin the wd. AUT and Autist.
Do you know that as of now I will use the word “literature” sparingly if at all and then for the most part only in or with ULA business or ULA press coverage and have decided to deploy the word, letters?
Or that the rebellion is coming on every front and the citizens are escaping from the lying trenches more each day while every independent writer and poet in Amurikkka is a leader. The revolution is innerstanding and happens at every instant of recognition. But anyone who uses the word reformation is probably a WASP Tory sympathizer
and they should go back to England or Israel. We should act like “masters without slaves”.
And that anyone even vaguely interested BECOMING…….. a politician …… takes the suffering world to be either sadism or masochism. Or both at the same time just to get over and get by.
Did you just tell someone to go back to Israel?
John, I guess I have to repeat myself: We’re finally launching our book line. The point is that before we launched our line a good metro store connected the dots on their own (that we’re going to be presenting nationwide) and asked for the full line for a display. That’s not how it usually works. This is working GOOD. Also, other publishers don’t get displays of their full line. This is a good sign for the upcoming campaign.
We may be slow but at least we’re unprecedented. And we’re the only ones even trying to make this break-thru happen for the indy voice.
***
Brady: your leader idea is fine. I think one would have to grow organically—start small, with a special project or region and build from there. But the ULA has been a national/global concept from the start. With special missions that spark up wherever members chose to make them happen.
***
John, the ULA has PROVEN that any time even a few undergrounders work together and go public and use a common rally-cry that the world DOES listen. We’ll make another big step forward this spring/summer. (We’re still relying on the notime/nomoney paradigm, but the ball IS finally rolling on this new front.)
Again, no one else has gone any faster.
***
One thing that seems worth exploring is how to get more READERS aware of what’s happening rather than trying to interact mostly with WRITERS as we seem to have done.
Here’s a good way to do that, to reach out to readers: the last 2 titles of the 8-title national launch are going to press next week… When they’re done we’ll be ready to roll.
***
We’ve actually had several effective mouthpieces. Members with diverse styles have gotten plenty accomplished in terms of major media coverage for the underground cause. Anyone who says “ULA” is a mouthpiece. It works.
***
The ULA has changed before and will keep changing.
I wouldn’t count us out.
We shift our fronts.
We’ve seen several cycles in our movement already. It ebbs and flows. (King has stepped down, backed off, before. Give him a break.)
I think every member would agree that we could do things differently and also that we are open to new ideas and approaches. Anyone is welcome to try their hand. Even when we’ve had specific missions under way, we’ve been open to others.
***
“I’m OK, you’re OK” is flawed because it produces useless reviews.
***
BTW, I recall seeing financial need as part of the NEA system—maybe there is more than one kind of grant—at any rate it’s taxpayer funded and that gets traction for anyone daring to shed light on the millionaire status of a recipient (J-Foer turned down the money part of his award after our efforts).
***
I know that fresh is TYPICALLY the most important thing on the web, a scene large parts of which has no other values, but what we’ve accomplished is a body of work in itself. Singular. No one else got the word out to the mainstream about indy writers like we did—and I think we’ll keep doing it.
There have actually been, oh, a dozen nifty new items posted in the last few months—things that are unlike what you’ll find on any other lit site. We’ve even had a bunch of PR successes that weren’t up on the site til recently. Google is our friend. It works and keeps working.
Let ‘er roll!
Colson Whitehead [got his name wrong the 1st time]. That is what I wanted to say last night. The mainstream and the academics and the literary prize machines are telling people that the nonsense produced by guys like Colin Whitehead is ‘good.’ So they read his empty nonsense and they have no clue what to say but the literary system said it was good so they think it was ’so good’ because if they can’t follow it then it must be deep.
That’s why we must fight it.
Anyway, keep on, Jeff. I want to see the ULA win this and I will keep watching. I agree with you on the leader thing. Nothing to be done but cross your fingers and wait. I didn’t mean to make it sound like I meant to do anything about it because leaders just show or they don’t.
In the meantime, I will be looking for writers I can complement and maybe cultivating a reader or two by means of this site and other efforts.
dear deadeye clicked on yr name-linq & found “poets union truth beauty craft grace amodernisimo,” am kurious how it relates w/ “but anyone who uses the word reformation is probably a WASP Tory sympathizer and they should go back to England or Israel” — dear ULA members at large what is ULA stance on Israel, Israel-related comments etc thanx NBY.
Hi Brady… I think of the leaderless Net and zeen scenes. I think any combination of leadership, initiative and cooperation could do the trick. Thanks for the encouragement—we’ll keep trying everything at hand!
Frank Walsh said,
“Now as for the OW , I have it from an honest comrade who happens to be on the inside of the outside of the Guild that the thing is pretty much washed up and doesn’t deliver on the promises of it’s leaders ( assuming that Pat King and JDS are anywhere to be found but up their own arses).”
We don’t have “leaders” as such and I’m not sure what we’ve promised. Of course, since this is coming from an anonymous source, a “comrade” as Frank calls her, without any other source, I have no doubt that Frank was pulling this straight out of his “arse.”
Oh wait, now I remember. We did promise something. We had a poetry contest and promised that the winner would have his book published. And we just delivered on that promise. It’s out now. Took us a few months to go through all the entries and pick a winner and then publish the thing. But that’s better than, oh the FIVE YEARS that it took the ULA to produce a single paperback book.
So that was an interesting lie, Frank. The best, lie and funniest, though was “Any way as the OW tried and tried to win over any number of ULAers including myself but not a single ULA member went over….”
The idea that we tried to recruit Frank is laughable. No one would get along with him. Frank and Karl Wenclas both started claiming that we were trying to “steal” ULA members after I sent Frank a friendly e-mail nostalgically remembering the few months that I spent in Philadelphia and suggesting that I return a book I had borrowed from him. Somehow that gone blow into my trying to get him into OW!
As far as the “others” I can only guess that he’s referring to the fact that we publish current ULA members such as Christopher Robin and Wild Bill Blackolive on our site. We feature lots of people from many different groups. We don’t believe that any particular group can claim ownership over writers.
Also, Jeff Potter said this, “We may be slow but at least we’re unprecedented. And we’re the only ones even trying to make this break-thru happen for the indy voice.”
Jeff, do you really believe this? If so, I want what you’re smoking.
This is so laughable it almost doesn’t deserve a response. I could name you a TON of hardworking presses that are trying to make this “breakthrough” for the “indy voice.” You guys are incredibly good at praising yourselves while in the exact same sentence, kicking other hard working indy publishers and writers in the balls. In doing so, YOU ALIENATE THE VERY PEOPLE YOU CLAIM TO FIGHT FOR. Think about that for just a second, eh?
Seriously, you guys need quit taking yourselves so seriously.
Yes I did but not the person Iwanted to tell to go back to Israel or who I tyhought I would tell but it was too late McGriedy came out of the closet and hhad resigned while the male prostitute who has been appointed to the NJ dept of homeland security had escaped to Israel by then.
But worst the guy I did tell turned out to be a Palestinian from Gaza, but I didn’t blame myself as those people all look alike ya know and he called me a few days later from Israel to tell me everything was just fine.
colin whitehead is a grin’n’ and pick’n’ deep blues man somewhere in the desert Sou’ West, Brainy Droll, are ya sure’s use doan means Rollo Whitehead of the Unbearables? You should min a line or two and lend him your mirror you filched from the boys gym.
If something makes sense but the meaning ain’t putting out no matter how much you force yourself it might be because you just can’t do what you have to in a public restroom not because you can’t give it a rest or cant go because of all the rich sauce you put on your viiddles it might just be that your don’t feel comfortable around the public, ya no, regular working class folk like me. I hope you find it in you. Or your beliefs and ideaologies are blocking the trees through the forest. Does it lift spirits does the mental sounding of absolute kraftwerk speak of the music of the spheres do ghosts and spirits come rushing in to take you away to your just deserts, wel there’s beauty for you. What doors unlocked, what third eyes op’ed and third rails charged, by the natural form of natural letters Meaning is so clunky and takes too much valuable time away from the experience of life. Significance is the point. You must discover the means in yourself to tow the line!
On the other hand, as per Jeff’s citing the the case of precedence and the ULA’s line of independent titles maybe instead of just watching like I heard rumored on the North Philly streets decades ago but the shoe still fits then boot it you can be on the recieving end of another ULA precedent and watch yourself get tossed out on your head.
It would only benefit you in the long haul. I mean landing head first.
Not that working people wouldn’t vote for you if you ran anyway, but that might definitely vote for you to runaway.
As far as I can tell NYB the PoetsUnion.us rubric is not dissimilar tto the famous Indian head test pattern that fliped on at the end of the old TV station broadcasting day accompanied by the drone od a thousand metal bees or WASPs cipping up under the impressionable human scalp. And as far as an agent like yourself is allowed to go. Unless you or your masters know the password which is also the futureword, simple put your oracular, speak the oracular man. Its for the birds, do you dig. Or bury others where you lie? Only you know the answewr to that. And keep it to yourself.
OW! What are you on drugs?
We’re seeing examples here about what would make things difficult for ANY new leader. Undergrounders are a contentious lot, and they tend to disagree about many things.
Re my departure from the ULA: I’ll just say that it became impossible for me to stay. Too much had been compromised.
Re OW: I wish them well, actually, though of course I was burned by/at the way they left. I have no hard feelings about most of them– mainly only one, actually, because he’s not a real underground and I think he had another agenda going. I guess I’ll have to post about that on my blog.
There ARE differences in philosophy and strategy between OW and the ULA. One is moderate– one obviously is not.
My attitude remains that you won’t get anywhere by retreat. I believe the current system– which most undergrounders agree is a failure– can only be changed through confrontation.
Right now I’m pursuing confrontation with ideas. It’s a winning fight.
Notice John defnding the current System while not addressing a single point I made in my “4-Part” series on my Happy blog.
Ideas aren’t enough. DELIVERY them is key. I’ve proven, when I was heading the ULA, that I’m able to do this effectively. No one else has done likewise.
The mistake both Mr. Potter and Mr. King make is overvaluing the importance of books. They justify the publicity– not the other way around. In this media-saturated society, p.r. always comes first. This was the essence of my strategy– which Jeff still to this day hasn’t comprehended. He continues his old-fashioned grind-it-out way of doing things.
The ULA’s problem was always not ENOUGH ballyhoo and noise. For this I’m most to blame, because I allowed myself to become distracted by reactionaries, moles, and the like, and wasted a tremendous amount of time.
The ULA’s original strategy was to create enormous demand– THEN feed books into that. Demand was always to come first.
The ULA’s original strategy was a thing of beauty– and at first worked perfectly. But it needed everything to go perfectly– full cooperation, which we lost from the beginning– for it to succeed.
Now it’s time to bury hatchets and come up with new ideas. And yes, with a new leader.
(I invite all folks– except Frank until he answers my question there– to state on Demi WHAT those qualities are that a leader needs, or even if we need one.
Or don’t. As I’m no longer in a group, I’m well content to do my own thing)
Two other quick points.
What people call “hounding” Rick Moody was simply pointing out that he was abusing the grants system, for the benefit of himself and his friends.
I well documented what I said.
Foundations, by the way, are tax shelters. The Guiggenheim’s original purpose was philanhropic– to help deserving underprivileged writers in a society filled with inquities. The Guggenheims were trying to level the playing field. Their pool of money was not taxed for this reason.
The rich, of course, in this society, take advantage of everything.
The idea of a wealthy writer, living in THE most exclusive enclave in America, receiving scarce grants money remains reprehensible to me.
Beyond this, even after the ULA made noise, Moody continued to be appointed to grants panels (like the ULA) and give money to buddies of his– time and again, actually.
Re “self-righteous.”
What does that mean, exactly?
That I’m outspoken?
That I speak out about things?
That I– gasp!– actually use my voice?
Can we not make comparisons and distinguish good guys from bad guys– even when the differences are so obvious?
Our ideas and products– though we’re just getting started– ARE better.
p.s.
One problem any strong leader will have is the same one I’ve had– writers become resentful if you have too strong of a personality.
p.p.s. Excuse the many typos. That should be “NEA” instead of “ULA.”
p.p.p.p.p.s.
If you’re passionate about what you believe, in a world of pod people, you will be designated as “self-righteous.”
Thanks.
King, I haven’t commented on your 4-part series because it is merely a reiteration of what you say over and over again: that literature is controlled by the establishment, making it harder for those on the outside to get in, and zines are the way to preserve literature.
I think blogs and websites are way more effective then zines in reaching a large audience, though there is still the issue of how to get people to know that your blog/website exists. Zines can’t reach as many people since they are printed and unless you’re printing thousands of them and somehow finding a way to get thousands of people interested in them (doesn’t happen very often with zines, right?). Plus. blogs are free. I can go to a blog and find out what you have to say without spending any money, while zines have to be bought (maybe they are cheap, but that’s still hard-earned money that could be spent elsewhere.)
I’m not trying to degrade zines at all. I just think they can’t compete with blogs; the internet is just too pervasive.
Your 4-part series suffers from the usual from you: too vague. You don’t give any examples of either the people and/or works you are speaking out against or the people and/or works you are promoting. It’s all just accusations using common labels, but no specifics. You don’t even once, not once, quote from the book you cite (and apparently stating its length of 991 pages is supposed to impress us? I don’t know what the length has to do with anything, though the number of pages is the most specific you ever get about anything).
Therefore, your argument is not persuasive. You’re just giving your opinion, which is fine, but I’ve heard it before, and since you don’t back it up with examples, I have no reason to go along with it.
And I’m still waiting to see some more blog entries about the underground writers you are promoting. You have been talking a lot about past writers, but what about the new ones? If anyone has any links to articles or profiles of some of these writers, please post them. If these writers are so great, how come there isn’t more said about them? (and please, no offers for me to buy one of their books first; i’m not prepared to spend my money on work just because you say it’s good. I want some proof; quote me an excerpt or link to one if you like).
In order for any underground movement to sustain itself, eventually the work is going to have to speak for itself. King, hype is important in gaining attention, but once you’ve got people’s attention, you still have to deliver the goods. You want to convert the POD people? Here’s your chance. You have my attention. Now deliver the goods.
Karl (I’ve never called him “King” and never will) said:
“The mistake both Mr. Potter and Mr. King make is overvaluing the importance of books. They justify the publicity– not the other way around.”
Yes. There is too much emphasis on these “book” things in literature. And before I hear you yapping about how I don’t understand your point–I do. Your strategy was to jump around, throw poo and scream like a chimp and get as much “attention” as possible. This would lead to masses of excited people buying books…….great strategy….except….IT NEVER WORKED. It never sold a single book. The proof? Wred Fright and Carl Robinson doing their own publicity, buying their own books from their publisher using their own gas money and STILL not selling all of their books. Whatever success they had on their tour had nothing to do with the Wenclas publicity machine, the ULA, their back-patting publisher. It was because of THEIR OWN HARD WORK!
To get back on topic, Brady, I don’t believe in leaders anymore. I used to believe in Karl. But I was younger then and just starting out as a writer. OW is devoid of the power structure of the ULA and much better for it. There shouldn’t be leaders in the underground. Maybe “guides” or somesuch. But not leaders.
The tone of the comments here at the end is really starting to bother me. I experience the same thing in political life. People get to know each other and so when a disagreement arises they start attacking each other. In activist groups, the irony is that they will attack fellow travelers more willingly than they attack the opposition.
Yes, I believe in leaders. I don’t believe in people voted into offices of organizations, necessarily, at least not as any hope of spurring a movement. Real leaders. Ones that inspire people to follow along. Real leaders are always needed in real movements for change. A real leader isn’t voted in. He or she just wins everyone over naturally. I think it was Jeff who said it had to be organic, and he’s right.
Anyway, on this thread I find myself agreeing with Jeff and Karl more than Pat and John. No surprise, there, but I’ll continue to support people who are pushing a literary aesthetic that makes sense, that normal people can identify with, that has compelling content and is about common places and common people.
I will also continue to support literary protest. I definitely agree with Karl that if you can make a big stink and a lot of controversy, the writers associated with the controversy will get more traction in the world than the ones who are just doing the same things as everyone else… a blog, some readings, some tours. You do need to go further and the ULA did do it.
Moreover, the protest is necessary in it’s own right. John, you say Karl hasn’t given examples. Fine. Here are some: Colin Whitehead, author of THE INTUITIONIST, I have mentioned. Dave Eggers (everything, it’s all nonsense). The trend in Jonathan Lethem’s writing toward greater pretentiousness. That awful 90s love fest, MULLIGAN STEW, that I’ve already mentioned. Everything cited in B.R. Myers’s “Reader’s Manifesto.” All bad.
People need to stand up against this stuff in a loud and proud way, in a punk way, so that they can be heard over the cacophony of the literary establishment saying that all the nonsense and drivel must be deep because they can’t make heads or tells of it and that the Ivy League Love Stories are “authentic” because they remind them of the stories their kids tell them.
I just think we have a lot of trouble working together, but I think that there might be someone out there who could bring a lot of underground writers together (maybe not the ones of the ULA and OW and the Blacksmiths, but some of them) and do something really good. In the spirit of the Beats or the Punks, or even in the quiet spirit of the Impressionists.
(Excuse me if I defend myself!)
What bitterness from Mr. King. What disillusionment! Wait until he finds out there’s no Easter Bunny. He’ll be angry for weeks!
The difference between Pat King and myself is that he’s a negativist, while I’m a true believer. Pat doesn’t think the rebellion will succeed, not really; while I KNOW it will. I also know that 90% of accomplishing something is believing it.
You’ll never succeed if you can’t handle failure. Pat’s post screams this.
I drove out west once, following the path of the pioneers. Amazing people. I remember a marker along the way: “The weak didn’t make it. The timid never set out.”
I’ve also read from history about characters like Cortes, who with a few hundred men conquered the mighty Aztec empire– a warrior culture whose capital city was greater than any in Europe at the time.
What we’re trying to do by comparison is easy: topple a corrupt and fossilized literary industry filled with fakers; a system which doesn’t believe in itself and is terrified by new ideas. (Can anyone say “Montezuma”?)
What’s Pat King’s plan? He’s going to do what 500+ other lit groups in the country are doing: have a web site; publish a book or two of poetry. Risking nothing. Making no waves. Big deal. Instead of thinking big, he thinks tiny.
We know one person to scratch off your “new leader” list, Brady. Picture it. PK: “Sorry, guys. Can’t be done. It’s not worth trying.”
There’s not been a moment since the campaign began that I HAVEN’T faced his kind of skepticism. At the beginning, when I told the other five founding ULAers we would get all kinds of publicity, they looked at me as if I were crazy. Who was I? A nobody. Yet we accomplished amazing things.
Re ULA books. Some irony here. One of my disputes with the ULA was that I had NO say in the books, none. Not even about marketing and presentation. Yet I’m to take the blame for Wred and Carl’s tragic story? Except for the ULA’s first six months, and occasional episodes afterward, we haven’t done things my way. But if you want to blame me, I’ll take it.
In publicity there is such thing as a tipping point. For stories, journalists follow the crowd. They’re pack animals. We approached yet never reached the point when the buzz would’ve started feeding itself, like a nuclear chain reaction. The closest we came was August 2003, when major stories in Black Book, The Believer, and Page Six were out simultaneously. We had Slush Pile at Tower Records at that time, a new issue just come out. 8 or 9 copies in Philly. Gone within a week. Likewise elsewhere around the country. Buzz works, if it can be created.
The classic example is the Beatles, who went from selling NO records in the U.S. one week– their records languishing in stores, nobody wanting them– to selling everything the next. Factories geared up overnight. Creating demand is everything. Before worrying about space on shelves you have to grab space in people’s heads. Don’t tell me about books not selling. You make my case for me– you have to have buzz, first.
What do we finally know from Pat’s remarks? He’s betting against me. Golly gee, I guess I should be worried, because this guy KNOWS, he really does. Not because he’s achieved himself, but because he hasn’t achieved, and so he knows what can’t be done. You see, it just can’t, because he says, that’s why.
But I’ve DONE it, chumps, and will do it again. Exciting days are ahead.
That’s King Wenclas to you, by the way.
Pat King: I’ve never heard of any other indy outfit trying to break thru to the mainstream. That is, they don’t go beyond the usual methods that have never worked for breakthru. I agree that there are indy presses, etc., doing great things. I give them all their props. Maybe I should’ve said the ULA is the only activist lit group, the only folks trying new approaches, trying to go farther than usual, using approaches that the mainstream responds to. Sure, the indy presses sometimes even make a splash in the small indy scene—they might be known in a metro hotspot—might even have a well-attended, super party tour. But they’re kept on the small range. They aren’t reviewed in the mainstream. They aren’t allowed in. They don’t get any bigger attention for the overall indy cause. They don’t take the next steps to break thru all the barriers in their way.
That’s not to say that the ULA has ever had all cylinders firing yet.
King: I don’t overdo the books. The books are finally going to get some national presence in terms of a diverse line playing off of synergy—multiple titles that will have visual impact in stores. Obviously, they’ll be anchor points for any PR. Both parts of the mission are needed. Clearly. I fully appreciate PR and noise and always have. It’s one of the main strengths of the ULA. Books provide opportunity. They take nothing away from any PR op—they’re how we put meat on the bones. PR has flashpoints. Books in dozens of indy shops are obviously where people can find out what we mean. I do plenty of PR myself, but books and getting a full line out there are my main things. Obviously, there’s plenty to do for all of us.
Here’s my take on the original ULA idea, one that still seems good to me: hotpoint teams plus a broad-based network to provide backup plus an amplifier that anyone can use to make themselves heard better, especially on the national stage.
The challenge is: How to get indy artists to cooperate and how to provide a way for those who believe in the indy value to make themselves heard? –So they can back up those indy artists and move their own projects forward?
I don’t think it’s at all reasonable or possible for total control/commitment throughout ANY global project. However, if the set-up is right then cooperation is doable—people WANT to cooperate—you just can’t take away their freedom and indy style. There are a lot of things we can all agree on! So let’s stick to those.
Hotpoint teams might have more serious planning to do to pull off tricky (fun!) projects. But even they have to be set up in a sustainable way—at least til they get the mission done. I think that people are happy to trust and to go with projects where they don’t quite understand every aspect but it makes enough sense. Trying to do teamwork with indy artists is like herding cats, but it could be done.
The real problem with the ULA was that the writing was always piss poor, simply degrading further as it became more well-known. ULA style was three pronged: 9th grade musings about skateboards/lesbians/the midwest, pseudointellectual vacuities (walsh, etc), banal recountings of pedestrian goings-on. Writers in each of these categories revolved around the same nucleus of misbegotten ego and the presumption that because they were unsuccessful they were better/kept out.
Wenclas was almost always the only talent in the group. His insight was that very presumption that he was better, but he also wrote with a style that wasn’t transparently bad like the rest of the ULA and touched some nerves in the literary elite. He was lucky that Franzen/Moody/Eggers were such sensitive souls. Their counterparts in the world of business or entertainment wouldn’t have taken the bait a Wenclas-like critic put out for them. The whole premise of the ULA (largely true) is simply the premise of industry in the developed world these days. Large conglomerates have near monopoly on production and cronyism is the path to success. Credentialism is just a way to meet the cronies you need and preserve your elite pedigree upon which every elite’s status depends.
Wenclas is like Ralph Nader. What he is saying is true, people kind of hear it and nod sometimes grudgingly, but at the end of the day, they just don’t care. Keep the tube socks coming at Walmart and the green tea matte lattes at Whole Foods. As long as they are getting what they want, they just don’t care. The masses separate into aspirational types when it comes to reading: Safran Foer for the park slope 30-something, Amiri Baraka for the college dropout, pot smoking poetry slammer, David Baldacchi for the man who likes to pretend he has an intellectual side even though all he does it send and receive faxes at an office and is perfectly content doing so. People want to like McSweeney’s the same way people want to like Vampire Weekend. These are social affectations that bring acceptability into the social circles they want to be in, and people will fiercely defend their tastes on these grounds (though not overtly, of course).
That’s why the ULA was a losing proposition based on its members and the writing they produced. Wenclas could get the insiders’ attention with his verve and sheer audacity, but once they took a look at what was behind him, there was just a collective “Eh.” Books like the Octopus or Anna Karenina that can break through a culture are not just tossed off the top of people’s heads. No such intricacy or power exists in a story about some ULAer’s ride on the subway or the time you fucked a prostitute in thailand. Those are emails you send your friends, not pieces of literature.
So Wenclas didn’t have the talent that would simply bowl over the literati, but he also didn’t have a gimmick that played into their desired worldview. He, by himself, could have played the part of their little angry troll and probably found a little sinecure in their “empire”, but the rest of the unwashed ULA would have to stay at home. They were so dull and pedantic. I’m sure Moody has a few friends who went to a state university, but they had to be a damn lot more entertaining than the humorless nags in the ULA.
So where to next? I think Wenclas has well-realized that no one in the ULA is worthy of his promotion, and there were probably diminishing returns drifting back to him being in such a schizophrenic (and yet still uninteresting!) group. I hope he writes a mystery or two. i’d like to see something like his version of “52 Pick Up”.
There are only two ways to subvert the literary establishment: write something of undeniable value or come up with a gimmick to trick your way into the system and “change it from within”, whatever that means (that’s what Eggers did, and when he got there he was just happy being wealthy). Culture is just fashion and writing is a subset. What’s in is in, very few books will transcend their era, and to the victors go the spoils. If the ULA was just interested in getting money/published, that’s an ok goal. Still untenable with its former member roll. wenclas rightly set his rhetorical sights too high (Revolution!), but the group was so unmoored from reality that they thought that this rhetoric was more than just a tactic. on top of that, they were all such pantywaists they desperately sought wenclas’ attention and threw little hissy fits when we was nice to grover and not walsh, or walsh and not victor, or jackman and not ann, or owen thomas and ….. well, i don’t think anyone every much thought of owen thomas. perhaps this lack of attention has kept him from writing a work of grand importance!
On a final note, one thing I always thought while I was reading ULA work was “these people think they are writers?” I was mostly amazed that the upper-class artistic pretension of “being a writer” or “doing a bit of painting” had really reached so deep into the middle/lower class psyche. It just reinforced to me how much “intelligence” has become a comestible product. Buy McSweeney’s and feel intelligent! And such an attitude really pervades everything. That’s the achievement of the current literary elite, on whatever small a battlefield is High Literature. The only way that can be overturned is by making people feel like independently assessing quality is actually much cooler than liking what everyone else you want to be likes. That is a very steep order, and Slush Pile is not the thing with which to do it. Instead, most of the ULA really needs the Audacity of No-Hope in their lives, so they can just get on with themselves and break out of this endless loop that the tripe you submit to your high school literary journal is going to impress some girl/your friends/everyone. It’s not. You’re not talented. And no aspect of your talentlessness is interesting. You are ignored because you have boring, cliche-ridden thoughts (get a blog!!). Say what the great band New Bad Things said to themselves long ago, “I Suck!” and get on with your life.
The “rebellion” is an illusion. It exists in Karl’s head. He made it up. So, no, I don’t think the “rebellion” will work. I’d rather fight the culture war on the level of ideas, not gimmicks and “ballyhoo.”
I just get tired of this “literary revolution” bullshit. Literature is a tool. It can be used for rebellion or to jack off someone’s ego or any other number of reasons. I say fuck throwing over the “literary establishment.” I say create a vibrant literary underground / outsider literary scene that is self sustaining and let it live on its own. People will either care or they won’t. But you create a forum for these ideas and make sure that people have access to them and you’ve done your job.
“Underground” and “outsider” really aren’t positive terms though. Marginalization is rampant in our society and most people don’t even realize or don’t care. I believe an artist has to be assertive, and/or have a structure around him that will help with the struggle aspect. Art is an expression of the human spirit given to us by god, and it should never be limited, certainly not self limited.
“Art is an expression of the human spirit given to us by god, and it should never be limited, certainly not self limited.”
For all that is good in this universe, please don’t bring sentimental fictions like “god” into this! I mean, at least try defending your position with some sort of logical argument, Pat.
Both of us are fat. And your analysis of the ULA was the shit.
Pat King, ok. I’m talking about the human spirit mainly. Call it energy or whatever you want.
Simonelli, I apologize for that last comment. It was out of line.
Brad, you’ve nailed it! Funny how you sd. on the otherside of the coin and here when the shoe’s on the other foot and it shoots you to quip without breaking a sweat–
“I hope nobody thought that I was trying to be the leader
I’m waiting for one
and if they come I just want to follow them”
Mano, man o’ war that takes the cake and let’s them eat it too!
I understand where you’re going with the first line and where you are coming from.
Follow them why? Why not at their side, or on either side, or running around them in cirles. Perhaps in front of the precious leader beating off darkies in the Congo or Kenya or in Calctta– peasants are revolting, begging for food?
If your were a follower of the Lord it wouldn’t even be this simple.
More to the point why do you want to know who this new leader is or whether the old leader wasn;t a leader at all really just another legend in your own mind. I know I’d want to know and lead myself to drink maybe follow my nose to a swell oven baked shew fly pie cooling on the open window sill and beat the devil, Old Scratch.
Why, why do your friends and associates the agents that you’ve seen — now don’t be bashful– watching, do your friend want to find this leader too.
Do you think Philadelphia and its so called literal scheme is at loss for a leader, as that’s what I’ve seen a lot of people do over the years there: take advantage of people who were poets or writers or poets mostly as that makes sense ‘cos there’s mostly shysters and politicos in Gothicka, and you can gain power over people starting small by leading the inflated poets and writers.
and killers and institutions who use vast amts of money from the State Dept. to supply the killers and pushers with guns as part of an “experiment” or “study” with the FOP calling the shots for eveybody else who is unarmed or with scruples tied behind their backs.
Any way unless the Leader is the Lord but that would be impossible.
And why do you and friends want to follow the leader, to put a knife in his back?
“Don’t follow leaders/ watch yer park’n’ meters”
I think my shadow material could be the leader your seeking. Just the shadow.
I’ll negotiate with it for you but I’m not promising I’ll stay around long enough to watch unless I ‘m on the payroll of those agents.
King: “Re ULA books. Some irony here. One of my disputes with the ULA was that I had NO say in the books, none. Not even about marketing and presentation. Yet I’m to take the blame for Wred and Carl’s tragic story? Except for the ULA’s first six months, and occasional episodes afterward, we haven’t done things my way. But if you want to blame me, I’ll take it.”
You were/are free to contribute at every step of the way. I don’t think we’d shut out help or good ideas. But you can’t do everything, Karl.
There’s “my way” in terms of shared ideas about the movement—that activism creates interest in indy art. If Pat K. thinks that doesn’t work, fine. But “my way” in terms of controlling everything is a nonstarter.
You have a lot of amazing material to use to get attention with and you could easily keep pushing the cause forward as new goodies come along. There’s enough good stuff in the ULA to make the breakthru happen—there’s no need to add the impossible desire to control everything throughout the whole process.
Fred and Carl’s story isn’t over yet either… Their books are still great and there’s still a lot of noise that could be made that included them. They still have important roles to play, along with other ULA books and zeens, in anchoring the cause in indy shops nationwide…
Whocanitbenow: You’re right: we’re never going to charm the gliterati. But we might get something going that they can’t deny. We’ll give them something to talk about, laugh about even. No harm there. There are quite a few book markets FAR BIGGER THAN THEIRS and more yet to be done. Their critics can even slash’n'trash our work. They’ve done that as well to more influential artists than their heroes. …If we can get a chance with readers, that’s all we ask. Who knows who might find that the folk writing concept widens their views and hopes about things…ya might be surprised.
Applicable to what Jeff’s reiterating (from my experience he’s time and time again explained himself, ie. where his heart is, with clarity and amazing patience in the face of indifference at best, meglamaniacal denial at worst ), so….
I’m sharing with this with the community such as it is gathered here, it’s from my post on the ULA members forum proboards.com:
Re: Strange blog post from BRADY
« Reply #12 on Today at 2:19am »
Also I think for a while now but more so clearly and confidently I understand where Jeff’s coming from and why that place come s off so strongly, sometimes seemingly narrowly….
Its his headstrong VISION of the ULAPress line and his need to doggedly and single mindedly GET IT DONE.
It should have been obvious to me. I wasn’t smart or focused enough to see this, nor mindful enough to filter out the interference patterns pulsing from other people’s resentful agendas regarding his vision, only now I hope that any others who did not do now. Or soon will.
[further and this is referenced in the Blog swamp swap bitch-slaps somewhere recently]
:
As for apologies I don’t pay much credibity to them, I think they’re impersonal and can be abused and bad ulterior intentions just like argumnets about respect– I learned these points the hard way in exchanges with the drug pushers and executioners on the Palestinian- West Philly streets– I’d much rather face to face shake hands and make up or at least talk over the phone and come to a reslution.
Link to Post - Back to Top Logged
And from an email to the great gonzo EMU author hiself:
On 3/26/08, frank walsh wrote:
On 3/25/08, Fred Wright wrote:
>>>Also take heart the response down here at the new place I’m hunting up the comic bookstore and the way the EMUS is being recieved by the owners is not minor but harbinger . The year-cycle for them and other ULA titles is coming full around for me and I’ll be back in Philly in May and begin cycling thru the three main outlets where they were placed besides NYC and Baltyimore or at least inquire about the stock above and below and then back here cycling thru the South east?North Florida then I plan to take stuff to the SW, Tucson specifically.mid- Summer as I have been invited by my theater girl from the 90’s to come out. And Jeff got that all important “line” order from CA too.
###
A simple thought from a simple man:
If you could combine Karl’s P.R. with a genre-busting, super-spectacular book, you might see the kind of big, revolutionary success Karl seeks, and it could open the door for a lot of really good writers who maybe aren’t so dynamite, but who ARE nonetheless of high quality, and would benefit from the “coattails” of the trailblazer by being from the same “stamp”, ULA or otherwise.
Problem is finding that book/writer, I guess.
-Frank Marcopolos
Formerly The Whirligig Lit-Zine
Frank me boy, dat dare is wort’ “a beat and a beer”, a red beet if yaz git m’mean’n'!
But as it’s been said especially after ‘they dissolved in 1970 that there would never be a bad like the Beatles ever again never a bad again period, the time of the rock band was over.
Did the rise of punk rock prove these pathetic souls wrong or of hip hop which pretty much pointed to the fact that the culture was so thin and bloodless that only the thrill and noise of the machine was viable and domianant whereas music itself was dead as god had died a hundred years earlier..
Now we wait for the Apocalyse when the apocalypse happened a long time ago and we’ve forgot in the mad rush to believe and convert the non-believers into chicken parts or gallery shows that the word itself is a particular genre -bending spin off of the book.
Further on topic, topic’ly.
(By the way, the long winded, undecided weather to be an anal probe (his own on himself) with no end in sight or an anatomically correct anemometer, who assumes the name here, Whocanniblownaut, and the assumes and assumes until he falls off his deptment chair is none other than notyhing at all than a stain on the carpet. An academic no doubt of some small measure and smaller members still in his closet drama and potty trained by an aunt milk toast— not worth the trouble to engage or disgorge if he stick in your craw but evidently some academic blaggard with a lot of time on his hands, among other things)
( Hence such a superego retains besides his own stool the projection of himself as shadow archetype in his case that of the head Vampyr or Vampire King as evidenced by his devouring demeanor , bloodthirsty obseession with squeezing every last drop of soul and lifeblood of any semblance of HUMANISM– the cold isolated heights of the black-ivory tower is what it delights in. So his intellect pure and sharp as it is void of any proximations of the heart– the wiggle that always allows and does not assume the possibility of change for its own sake– takes indifferent pleasure in diminishing the victim and source of ihis power from both ends like the proverbial candle, so as he inflates King Wenclas and strokes and stokes KINGS ego the better to set him up for a harder fatal fall– to tempt and persuade (seduction is incomprehensible to this brand of heartless bijou monster) King that oppossing the oppressor does not only provide a significant payback in the consideratrion or half cocked ear of the sensitive interbred freaks that Moody and Eggers, etc. head up, ie. that such “gets” thru to head board posts like them but that also King as leader wants and can get what his darker side most desires to be paid homage to and assimilation into the Superego and made the troll under the establishment bridge of games while at the same time destroying the thing this bully Vampire most, out of necessity to maintain the illusion of his existence and the negitive reinforcement thereof, wants to destroy, namely the vital fortitude and future shock of passionate and studied democratic extremism in the socially specific human Imagination ( as contradinct to the fantasy of totalitarian capitalism overwhich the vampire in all its forms depends) as regards letters since literature as with language is the life blood of culture across cultures and the source technology behind all technology that give human beings and the ULA as it now keeps on trucking, leaderless but following suite and entering into the labor pains of EGALITARIANISM, their irrevocable edge and handicap. Such is the threat of the ULA to such a creature comfort that the whole castle of cards are liable to fall unless abject nihilism has its way that IT will spin and spin to hide us from ourselves and the readership that might follow into the wholly realm of readers and writers alike and undivided by class-ification ( What Whathehellaminow calls zeens, sophmoric, “poor” and “bad” RIGHTING is a substitution code for well informed readers inspired by writers like themselves only further along in the life- art liberation and at that a symbiosis of reader/audience- performer/writer, free exchange, and the supercession of domination- submission roles and alienations INTHE VERY MIND AND THRU THE VERY STUFF OF THE CONSCIOUS MIND WHICH IS LANGUAGE ITSELF. COMMUNICATION WITh THE OTHERS/
Simply put what this guy is doing is what the vampire does what this guy is doing here and the basis of his insidiousness– inversion.
The penultimate threat to this Anonymoot in other wds. and what threatens him the most is King’s leadership in the ULA revised and foundered in the heat of his most recent fasting for 40days in the desert,, of Detroit, revisted but not reformed as a followerless leader back in step with the ULA leaderless followers– following the bliss of their own and leading outsiders, the literate(reading and writing, the citizen’ry) , to a “creative now.” and greater dicovery thru a greater literacy.
While folk for the longest while already know what the ultimate threat to the Vampire bees and us people know how to use it!
walsh, always a pleasure to read your clever puns. what i was actually saying was that Karl could have sold out for some pennyante position in the literary world because he was at least amusing to the “overdogs”, in contrast to rest of the humorless ULA. i think he wisely didn’t, though. he had bigger goals and he showed a bit of selflessness–pretty rare among ula types.
the gist of what i was saying is this: karl was savvy/outrageous enough to know how to get the attention of the current literary elites. once he got their attention, the ULA writing was just so bad that everyone lost interest. perhaps, as karl puts it, if everyone had just followed whatever plans he had, he might have even been successful in pushing a ULAer or two into prominence despite their writing. who knows. i never liked ann’s writing, but i do think there was some chance he could have promoted her successfully. instead, as seems common among reprobates, pettiness and infighting foiled that chance.
i like your idea that i am setting up karl for a fatal fall. will it be from the philadelphia public library to the detroit public library to, what, the flint public library? i admire karl because he has talent and he’s tireless. i really don’t have any idea what he should be doing (it’s really none of my business) but would definitely read any book or story he cooked up.
judging from the last few years of internal ULA debates that i have seen, i think the ULA is probably not worth his time. it really seems to have descended into naked ambition. at least people like the urban hermitt just wrote and did his/her thing without the cynical kind of commercial objective that all these splinter groups and internal fights evidence. not that there’s something wrong with wanting to get published and get your ideas our there, but it seems like people are willing to stab the ULA in the back for the most minor bit of self-promotion (see Chris Zee, Phillip Routh, etc).
you peg me as some academic with an insidious agenda to co-opt underground writing and strike a final death blow to the proletariat. From the dunnest chambers of my blackened heart, I wish! So now that we’re clear on what I want, what do you really want Walsh? Do you want everyone to hear your poems about how Bush knew about 9/11 or that corporate Amerikkka is strangling the working poor? Do you think you are the stifled visionary that only the world needs hear and be liberated? Or are you actually the real egotist here, ever more convinced that your obscurity and “rejection” by the literary world is the very proof of your own talent. If you do, that would make you a true blue ULAer, in my opinion.
Isn’t your story the real tale of the ULA’s lack of success? you’re a terrible writer. it’s like you’re caught between a singleminded dedication to this elite/egalitarian prism and a desire to sound erudite by misusing arcane vocubulary and writing as incomprehensibly as possible. maybe it’s you who really belongs in academia!
everyone who’s been involved in the literary “underground” knows that a really shitty, really nepotistic, truly atrophied group of people are in charge of Literature. karl had some good plans on how to strike at them and their callowness. but, like B.R. Myers proves, you can’t knock down that superstructure and offer nothing in replacement. Why has the ULA still produced no work of any interest over all these years? Oh, I forgot, it’s because stories about temp workers and poems about gentrification are being actively suppressed. The exception here is Bill Blackolive, who really was the true kind of outsider talent that should have been pressed to the top of the ULA agenda.
George
Now that George has gone public with who he is, I have to confess that I’m with him on more points here than it’s comfortable for me to admit. Whocanitbenow and I hung out a lot once the ULA introduced us in Philadelphia, and we frequently discussed our general disappointment with the present underground.
When I went to the Medusa show, I fully expected to have my socks knocked off by the writers present. I couldn’t wait. I have never been so nervous about a public performance as I was that night.
My socks stayed on. Not that there weren’t a few moments. I liked Bader’s style and Wred got some chuckles out of me, but that was it. Worse, I definitely heard writers whose pretentious poetry and prose struck me as every bit as self-involved as Egger’s footnotes, only with fewer revisions.
“Our bad writers are better than your bad writers” is not going to cut it. We need some of the proverbial pens forged in the fires of hell, here, in order to go after Valencia Street. We are, as yet, armed only with cheap Bics that have long run out of ink.
Two books from Wild Bill Blackolive are coming out in the next month.
(Just wrapping up final cover edits.)
To George B. aka Whocanitbenow:
Your March 25th post about the ULA was at least amusing to read, though i disagree with 95% of it. Your March 28th follow-up is more of the same in a harsher tone. It’s laughable that you claim ULA writers have produced “no work of any interest over all these years.” Ok so out of a pool of at least 50 writers over a span of 8 years, no one is good enough for you except Bill Blackolive? I would agree that Bill is our top overall talent, but i don’t understand how you can dismiss so many others off the cuff on a blog post, especially not when you have been listed as a ULA supporter for several years. We update that list as warranted, and apparently one of our Philly members was sentimental in keeping you barnacled to it. I’ve been the ULA web bastard and an active member since 2004, if you really despised the group and all our works so much, all you had to do was drop me or any of us an email saying so. This string of posts on Brady’s blog is the first i’ve heard of it.
To Brady:
Sounds like you don’t have much respect for your fellow ULA writers either. If so this seems rather two-faced, since unlike George you have kept in touch with many of us, shared ideas and new projects, in the spirit of what the ULA really is at its core, a collective of mutally supportive underground artists. Yet you’d rather take chip shots at our 2005 Medusa show, George would rather talk about ULA in the past tense and from a 2002 perspective?? With friends like you guys who needs enemies!
I have to say I am very disgusted at this point. As George points out, there is too much willingness to backstab…i’m just sick of it. Isn’t there any loyalty or honor left in the lit world? Or at the very least, respect? I think that’s what your original “leadership” blog post is getting at, Brady, but the concept is a deeper one.
These posts about talent are old hat to me. ULAers have spent 100+ hours already as a group dealing with the question of the kind of talent that’s relevant, that could be used to cause a stir, that could reach out to disillusioned readers.
For instance, Jack Saunders hasn’t been mentioned—and probably George and Brady aren’t into him—maybe dismiss him—but he’s had good luck in finding readers that other recent writers just weren’t reaching. He’s had astounding critical appraisal along with total dismissal.
I think there are several levels that ULA actions can serve. An important one is reaching out to readers that today’s System writers are neglecting. Our ability to do that will take certain kinds of talent. Yes, not just one kind. We’re not all going to like the same writers. But I think that Jack, just for one, has PROVEN that he can reach readers that System writers can’t. I have no idea how MANY such readers there are. I hope that future PR campaigns help sus that out better than they have so far.
Did the Beats have a leader really? There were MANY strong and diverse voices and functions in that scene!
Sure, it might be neat to have a leader but there’s so much that we could easily do just the way we’ve always been. We have activism, we have support. We soon to have more foundation. We have outreach. We have name recognition. All we’ve ever accomplished happened because members took initiative and won a few other members over for help as need be.
I don’t think my take on the ULA is quite as disingenuous as you think, Pat S., but I can understand why you feel that way. I really wanted to believe in the ULA and more or less talked myself into it for a long time. That’s why I participated. I drifted away as it got harder and harder to tell myself something I didn’t believe and then when it came up here I just felt the need to be honest. These things are nothing that I haven’t said to individual members, privately, in the past, though.
Jeff makes a great point, on the other hand, though. I can’t argue with numbers. There is no question that Saunders leaves me cold… but if he’s making a connection with an audience then I can’t really argue with that, especially if they are off the beaten path of mainstream fiction readers.
Response to this act of cowardice and intellectual hatred March 29th, 8:18 PM
After flushing out Pat King and George BlaGoblin and thru common sense and some street wise and dharma cultivated investigative reasoning I showed that Blabgorgin’s and KING where in cahoots and mutually jacking each other off for the sake of smearing and slandering all the heroic ULA writers plus the POET, meself but especially Jeff Potter and the irreversible fact that ULApress is very near (the last of the galleys for this new wave of ULA writers joining up with the initial big five ULA/ LitVision writers), very near completion as you hear it from the horses mouth, JP, hiself,in the previous post.
This suppression and censorship of me and my opinions on all of the above conclusions is the penultimate evidence that Georga and, probably to a lesser more venial degree Brady, are behaving like fascists and neo- liberals/ nazis ( The is no difference in ethical depravity between neo= cons and neo- liberal, as the Spectacle, on a National Level, of a two part system, a typical dualistic exhibition of Dominance and Submission in a supposedly Bill of Rights and Constitutional guaranteed democratic and PLURALISTIC democracy, is currently showing U.S.)
Now because of this low blow more convinced as I have had my suspicions that
KING had actually on his ATDP. Blog and maybe on his Happy America assumed an anonymous post identity sometime last week in order to “more d-efectively” attack and discredit THE POET aforementioned above in order to attack him in a more extreme manner than King’s usual personal BLOGGER character of KING WENCLAS, I am more so myself convinced that this is the case because of the “coincidence” ( co-coincidentally but for me, so synchronistical (?) I had already decided last week not to return to any of King’s Blogs and then also not to return to Brady’sTTWP Blog after putting a stake into the vampyre calling itself, “Who’scanedcannow”) that king as of today has disallowed any comments on the ATDP Blog (after it looks like besides he looked over the ULA members proboardsforum and my post there that references my posts that have been censored here and declares that he will not return to the Forum for “some time”)Some coincidence, then that my 2 posts from early this morning were removed by Brady!!??
Casual readers/writers of a true American independent spirit, independent publishers, DIY zeensters and AUTISTs and, most, you, the bothers and sisters who I and, I’d venture to say, the heroes of your ULA pay greatest homage to namely the independent printers and the pressman/ printers Unions, take heart.
For I have taken the precaution last night of copying my two suppressed ( I can swear strangely that mispellings saved them!)posts in question after I posted them and will now spend a little time disseminating this and those posts as far and wide as possible for the good of the reading and writing public the integrity of the ULA and the exposure of mountebanks– who is as dishonorable as it gets my friends as he is a supporting member of the ULA!!!!– and a carpetbagger and a fascist, none other than the Blahgobblin’!
You can find everything all the 2 posts plus this one at ULA Review Blog, lined below:
http://ulareview.blogspot.com/
O maintenant nous si digne de ces tortures! rassemblons … Voici venir le temps des ASSASSINS
Frank, cease with the slander, please. It’s bad enough getting slandered by demi-puppets, without also getting slandered, continually, by fellow undergrounders.
I NEVER post anonymously. It goes against everything I stand for.
The one thing ULAers obviously didn’t pick-up from the recent internal ULA dust-ups is that principle to me is important– more important maybe than other considerations. It’s why I couldn’t go back to the ULA after what had happened.
This is, what?, the third time you’ve slandered me without a SHRED of evidence?
Yes, you definitely owe me an apology, my man.
A couple of your slanders are available for all to see– such as the notion that the recent book project was killed because of me. It turns out this wasn’t the case at all! Does Walsh correct his mistake? Never.
************************
I have nothing to do with George’s opinions. I’m not in communication with him.
As Pat S notes, this was an outstanding thread until George weighed in a second time, unnecessarily.
Brady’s comments are contradictory and counterproductive– and disappointing, because he had created a good thing then shit on it.
What happened to not sniping? The credibility in someone beginning a discussion like this is in then remaining above the fray– keeping your neutrality.
Yes, your leadership skills, so far, seem to be lacking.
Especially since the “Medusa” slam was so wrong-headed. Just about everyone there had a great time. Some of the poets– like Terreri, Grover, and Natalie– were outstanding. Okay, from a different style than the “mainstream,” but representative of some very alive streams of poetic performance, full of verve and energy.
I like Bader’s writing, but he was probably the weakest reader there– went way too long, and really stirred nobody. Too reminiscent of a standard lit reading.
Sorry, I’ll go with Jackie Corley’s review of that same event– and she’s attended and been in a LOT of lit readings.
*********************
Frank: put up or shut. Either produce some evidence of your accusations re me, or publicly apologize. Otherwise you’re off my blogs. I turn the other cheek only so many times.
Like I would need to go anonymous to deal with anybody! I’ve handled all comers under my own identity. I’ve butted heads with some of the best, like Mamatas. After seven-plus years I’m suddenly going to change my ways?
That’s nonsense. Utter and unforgiveable nonsense, beneath you, really.
********************
George’s points I’ll address on my own blog, in time.
Actually, King disabled comments several days ago, as can be witnessed in a reply to one of his posts where he says he is going to disable comments.
Slander is spoken, by the way, while libel is written.
And Frank, your poetry really does suck.
“…the fist that crushes crushes the the tyrants head becomes a a tyrant in the tyrant’s stead.” stead.”
— Wm. Blake
Transmission ended……..
3/24/2008 11:40:00 PM
3/26/2008 10:58:00 AM
Deadeye Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 2:36 am
Silence speaks volumes.
I actually like Frank., and I appreciate his poetry very much– though he’s the worst possible salesman for his own work. Frank is the anti-salesman. At some point, when he settles down, I’ll examine his work and explain how he does things that no other poets are doing.
Frank’s problem is that he makes no attempt to edit or check what comes out from him. Kind of a literary Tourette’s Syndrome. Like an out-of-control water cannon, he just starts spewing and spewing with mad, endless posts, not caring who he targets. What he says is often nonsense, and we indulge it, because, well, that’s Frank.
********************
What’s happened here is the impossible. Through individuals like Frank and Brady, my rep has inadvertantly been rehabilitated, at least a trifle. We’ve seen many negative examples of what a leader is NOT.
I think now: how were these people all on the same team? But they were, and at times even got along. You see, Brady, I WAS followed, for seven years.
The next leader’s task will be difficult and unenviable. He’ll have at least my total support, because I’ve already been there.
**********************
Btw, what Frank and George have in common is that they each like telling people off. It’s perhaps their greatest joy.
Both Frank and George were brought into the ULA because they’re good writers– albeit on opposite ends of the literary spectrum. As we’ve seen snippets of, George is an excellent essayist, when he doesn’t get bogged down in negativity. Frank is a great poet and one of the best lit performers on the planet. (Note to ULA: please keep him in that role. Your best spokespersons now are Pat Simonelli, and, yes, Steve, if he’d ever stop hiding.)
Neither Frank nor George were brought into the ULA for their ability to get along with people!
If that had been the criterion, there would never have been anyone in the organization.
Wenclas wrote:
I’ve said what I needed to say.
Lord, what a precious collection of souls. To clarify for Pat S: I still support the goals of the ULA, and I don’t “not support” many of its writers. I was just giving my take on why I think the ULA failed to capitalize on the position it initially built. My 2nd post was harsher because Walsh went on an ad hominem against me. I thought it fair to respond his dribble, which I think only illustrates my line of thought about the ULA’s lack of success.
ended……..
3/24/2008 11:40:00 PM
3/26/2008 10:58:00 AM
Deadeye Says:
March 29th, 2008 at 2:36 am
No one addresses here the fact that I and my comments the penultimate one and the one before that– have been censored off this Blog by you PC nazis?
To be expected.
I know what you and Brady are doing George and I know what a blackguard and a carpetbagger you are so just to let you know when I am back in Philly stay out of my way.
One of my new pet projects when I get back– and I could be there standing right behind you as I never sur-really left my Gothicka after all–
is to expose and then destroy both your and Baby Drole’s political ambitions.
So you and your gang of bottom feeding preppies liars and cheats better be ready for me and my gang of super villians!
Here’s the link that reviews and exposes these geeks for what they are?
http://ulareview.blogspot.com/
Walsh– of course I deleted your comments when you crossed the line into vitriol and personal insult. Any blogger would have. I should delete moreof the nonsense you’ve written on here. You’re not contributing anything. Everyone else has tried to keep it on point. You only have one point: Walsh-Walsh-Walsh.
And, yes, I deleted the comment you wrote on my top post because the only reason you put it there was for prominence. It didn’t have anything to do with the issue at hand and that’s a netiquette no-no.
My front page displays all new comments in the sidebar, so folks will have the chance to see your plea for justice here, Walsh, even though it’s on an old post.
As for crushing my political ambitions, they are already crushed. But, I dunno… bring it. Whatever.
It’s not for you to decide.
It’s for Blogger or WordPress to.
The reason for that is to protect themselves and their reputations in the eyes of the public and their “clients” in that they probably regard supression and censorship of expression a more damaging thing than subjective and prejudicial actions of your sort from single users or groups.
Otherwise the proof is in the putting– why are you two NOW justifying your suppression and censorship of my TWO comments of the 29th) instead of letting, i.e. posting a disclaimer and/or counterargument in the correct spirit of free exchange of ideas and discussion your readers and the general reading/writing public? Simply put the answer is that your intent was to suppress and censor me and get away with it by hiding and therefore conspiring toward the end of NOT LETTING ANYONE ELSE KNOW what you did and covering up the “facts” of your own “bad characters” and corruption, “poison in the blood” (Hamlet, Act I, sc. 5 and also cf. Julius Caesar ) inspite of the cult of personality you are trying to “get over” on people for the sake of your local political ambitions and the exploitation of the underground literary scene as the basis of such.
It goes without saying that the slander and vociferous and “hateful” lies, misinformation and bamboozling were not only initiated by you but also such and everything that is dirt or dirty in your own behavior and “claims” pushed off on the ULA and specifically our Press our writers and especially on me and my work as I am pretty much the ULA poet and The Poet of Philadelphia, who Marilyn Lois Polak, a local but nationally known veteran reporter and journalist (for the Inquirer) , calls, “legendary”, and who internationally famous established photographer Lawrence Salzman calls ” the poet laureate of Powelton Village” and other established landed-gentry refer to as “master poet”. C‘est moi.
Therefore it makes sense that seeing me as a potential if not ipso facto “leader” of the artistic underground especially the lit undergrounds, even tho I hereby again dismiss, denounce, decry, being a Theravada and socialist, as well, as The Poet, the whole polluted and compromised concept of “leader” especially and particularly as is “promoted” by you two and also King Wenclas, for you and he for personal reasons have perused the defamation of my character and “reformation” (a word that brings attention to your WASP proclivities, as in “yes, that’s very White of you”) of my work in order to remove or neutralize the threat to your ambitions and conspiracies.
Does that get your goat, goatboys. Is that clear enough.
In closing and in toto (meaning not coming back to this pathetic and self-stroking blog ever again)– tho I will be of course keeping tabs on y’all– I challenge “you and whose army?” and “yo mamma” to a public action read off and free form slam “duel” limited to poetry as that’s what your attacking here, at a place and time mutually agreeable. And let the public, the writing/ reading public, our peers, decide for themselves.
Have a nice day and “break a leg”.
And feel free and contact me by email– as I do promise not to, in response, ride you rough-shod or belittle y’all tho I’ve done none of that here and to the extent I have perhaps even if only in the view of your “monkey-minds” because I was provoked and/or initially provoked by your smearing of the ULA and its comrades-at-arms as I see this challenges business at hand and a way of putting you in your proper level of engagement.
Note: My only interest in all this over and beyond Truth, Grace, Craft, and Beauty, being served on its opposites, is to two questions being answered, namely: “who are you working for?” and, “what drugs are you on?”
Deadeye Says:April 9th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Here’s the link that reviews and exposes these geeks for what they are?
http://ulareview.blogspot.com/